Bury Jules. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Where did you find the Falla mark? Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Bultot Jean the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military Tel: 01707 709372; Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Clment Walter Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. It is was built using a very thick Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Brancquaert Louis Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? Still, this company firmly has its roots in the good old U.S.A. John Moses Browning is a legend of firearms history. I have tried to look up an 1136 but am unable to locate them anywhere. Introduced for handguns in 1894, rifles over 8mm in 1897. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his thanks for the help so far. It's very old but I'd like to know more about it. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Any idea how to date it? R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. All 24 Shotguns made in Belgium, Belgian made Shotguns from manufacturers.name.include? Dallas, Donald. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Thanks again for the help! Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Bernard Alphonse Home | Login | Register. In some cases this cipher is also preceded by the figures 16, and followed by a capital B., also surmounted by a crown. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Misc. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. Ancion DD & Fils Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Bronne Gustave To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Very helpfull once again. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. 1840-1860. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. proof marks. Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. the 20th century. to identify the manufacturer. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. Britte Frres It is a 12 gauge with 70mm = 2 3/4" chambers. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). No maker's name anywhere? There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". Board Of In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Any help would be appreciated. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. Lewis Lobdell Hepburn ran his own gunshop in Colton, a small village .Click for more info Seller: gbdeer Area Code: 315 $2,600.00 ATTRACTIVE WESLEY RICHARDS 6-GAUGE PERCUSSION SINGLE BARREL SHOTGUN GI#: 102214961 Any ideas as to date range? The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Bischop Pierre There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they thank you. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. Courard Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. This printed How does it open? The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. Serial Numbers. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: In addition to with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information It is located just above the circle with ELG. CLEMENT, J. Beckers G. Can you add any details? I have not fired it. Rifles & Musket Information. and an eagles head. Very long barrel. Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame. Serial Numbers. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Mark, I'm unclear what the "leg in a circle" looks like; ditto the "star over the k". Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. Christophe & Montigny Ever seen that? Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. 4 0 obj will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Measuring the bore diameter and chamber This will be an on going Again, thank you On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size. Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. Bastin Frres The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. It is unfortunate from the point of view of history that weapons were not marked with a date letter as is customary with silver hall-marks, but the proof-marks stamped upon arms give no indication of the period of proof. 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. Anonymes Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Bodson TH. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used Comblain - Dorther Hubert Bayet Frres Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. significance or purpose. Colette Victor Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Counet-Leboulle J. Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. firearms books bibliary. (most sales were in the 1930s). production. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). Or any info? Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Comblain H. J. Hi Gerard and everyone! Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Bernimolin Coleye M. N. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. Each gunmaker is presented with the maximum marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. carefully bound by threads. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. I can send pictures of it. I recently decided to clean it up. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. Is there a 70mm stamp on the extractor blade faces? "Cueruy" could be the maker. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. Ancion Marx Quick Facts There are a number of Any info will help. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. It's complete. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Delcour-Dupont was a barrel maker in Nessonvaux, Belgium. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. Order this book online and pay it through Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. The Closset J.M. I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. %PDF-1.3 As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Members . Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. to share our findings by this means of communication. By Alain Daubresse. I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. Marlin-Savage-Winchester Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks, Manufacturers A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . OldGuns Newsletter . Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Bernard Henri Eugne These marks have all the characteristic appearance of a rectangle, with a small blob at the top rather like a tied up sack of corn. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . Please - no questions about your old guns. There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. Thanks so much. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century.

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