2023 Power Automedia. Around 70 percent of muscle-car performance cams fall into this range. I have used some cut on a 110 that worked well too, but they never sounded as good as the tight ones. Yeah but do the experiment on the dyno and tell me your intuition is correct. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:38 pm, Post Looking at 108vs. Higher overlapping lets less oil fall through the oil inlet. The same is true for intake valve closing. on average with a N/A motor if you stick the two cams in at the track the tighter lsa will be faster at the expense of idle quality. Cam swaps are all the rage and for good reason. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The taller lobe seperation will have a longer powerband but will have to rev higher to make the power than the lower lobe seperation! Thanks again. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. To establish the position of each lobe, the traditional reference point is where the lobes reach max lift. by trmnatr Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:45 pm, Post 68 Mustang, 306, AFR 185\'s, CI cam, FPA\'s, Bigs 650 DP, T5Z, 9" w/4.33's. Its the shifting problem again with your Chevy! We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. All three terms are similar, as they all relate to the relationship between the centerline of the Intake lobe and the centerline of the Exhaust lobe. What happens when you change ONLY. = Moderately Wide 110-108 Deg. Because the lobes are closer together on the 101 LSA cam, the intake closing point is advanced (closes earlier) and the piston has more time to build compressionexactly what the gauge showed. This wave tuning is what helps performance engines achieve volumetric efficiencies of more than 100 percent. If you compared these two cams side by side in identical engines, the first cam would actually have a slightly better idle and would produce slightly more peak power at upper RPM's. Chuck Lawrence of Jon Kaase Racing Engines was asked to give a 520ci BBF a Pro Stock sound, so he went with a 108 LSA in place of a more conventional 112 LSA. This cam also offered the highest torque output at 4,000 rpm with 522 lb-ft. Based on the peak numbers alone you might be tempted to grab the one with the tightest (108-degree) LSA, but there is more to a cam test than power. If you're an OEM automaker looking for a steady idle, good fuel economy, and passing tailpipe emissions, this is the cam of choice. The piston and cylinder damage possibility is pretty low at 110 LSA. 110 LSA: The 110 LSA shows up mechanically advantageous in mechanical aspects like higher RPM, lower engine knock, moderate cylinder pressure, improved idle vacuum, and higher piston-to-valve clearance. 106 LSA: You can see an increasing EGR effect at 106 LSA. Is it a hydraulic roller as well? by jobes Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:51 pm, Post Post 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. 112-110 Deg. Required fields are marked *. The intake air control valve (IAC), which regulates idle speed, also has to work overtime and often attempts to "catch" the idle, but usually shoots high or low. " - Voltaire. However it is at the expense of a small amount of bottom end power and idle quality, due to the increased overlap. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. In my opinion, the rougher the idle the better! Thats just the way the customer wants to roll, and engine builders find its easy to deliver such a powerplant. More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. I have Crane hydraulic link bar style roller lifters, so I dont have to use the spider style. If you shift at 7500-7800 add 4-6 degrees to both intake and exhaust and spread the lobe separation to 108-110. Lobe separations gives lots of overlap and lobe centers just happens when the grinder decides how the peak of the lobe will arrive on a specific grind by their tooling. I'd also go to a 110-112 lobe separation angle. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. 110 LSA: On the contrary, it is pretty unpleasant to inform you that the efficient compression rate decreases at 110 LSA. O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts That is why 106 LSA consumes less oil. Tests 2 and 3 meant dissecting the motor on the dyno to get the old cam out. In reality, a cam with 220 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 112 will have the exact same mechanical overlap as a cam with 217 at 0.050" and a lobe center angle of 109. All testing was performed with an Aeromotive fuel pump feeding a set of 42-lb/hr injectors. 106 LSA: As you know, the intake and exhaust lobes centerline distance is known as lobe separation angle. It provides a spark plug with the high voltage needed for combustion. Because during the lower units oil change, you can go through the issue that the lower plug, Read More Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything]Continue, Among the crucial parts of a vehicle ignition system is the ignition coil, also called a spark coil. Lobe separation angle does. Powerband serves a massive contribution to the acceleration car. LSA helps determine the cam's behavior; you can take a given set of lift and duration figures, change the LSA, and get cams with vastly different characteristics. If you drew a line that divided the intake lobe in half right at the point of maximum lift, then did the same to the exhaust lobe, then measured the distance in cam degrees between the two, that would be the lobe separation angle. ALL bolts are ARP. by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post But, the internal processings are much more complicated. Engine builders Chuck Lawrence, left, and Doug Patton. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. 114LSA +4 puts the intake centerline at 110 degrees before top dead center. They also reduce stress on the outdrive. That notion is completely false. Kevko baffled oil pan & Milidon windage tray. Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. Retarding the camshaft (a higher intake lobe centerline number 108 vs. 104) will generally start the power band later in the RPM range and decrease the cylinder pressure. I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. Camshafts with a substantial overlapping tendency should not be used in vehicles driven on public streets. "It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got!" Maybe even 114. Aluminum flywheel & pullies. I had an XE 274 in it. Some of the programs like engine analyzer pro and dynomation seem to like some of the wider lsa's.Thanks again JOE. That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. Ultimately, it makes the 110 LSA an oil-consuming LSA. or just enough to keep the neighbors pissed? The 110o will make more power overall. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. Ultimately, it comes down to how you want the engine to run, the car's intended purpose, and what you are willing to tolerate. But, the narrow or broad powerband choice varies from person to person. Call for details with your specific combination. A cam with a tighter LSA will require a looser torque converter, may not be able to run vacuum-assisted brakes, and doesn't play nice with fuel injection. A cam with a 112 lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. camshaft is a Cranecams F238. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. I would have to say that your cam choice sounds like a winner to me. Comp cam hydraulic roller lifters. GRIND #: CRB3 3194 /3196 HR111. I though my car would have a nice rough idle with the solid cam with a tight LSA I put in my car, its go a slight lope to it, but it pulls hard. To reiterate another point, I realize that wider LSAs tend to broaden the power band, but for a car I would like to bracket race a bit, as well as enjoy on the street, I was told that a narrower LSA will help the car accelerate at a faster rate. I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. For any additional clarification or questions please contact our Tech Line at 714 523-0530. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s. too much for the street? by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post Your best bet would be to talk to one of the experts at a cam company to get a custom grind if you're that into the specs. In this segment, I am going to compare those two lobe separation angles based on a couple of mechanical factors. i have a 4 bolt 351C, stock bore, 10.5 cr with 351C Boss heads ,boss crank and rods. Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. Boom, you get the lobe separation angle of that engine. Epilepsy is a chronic noncommunicable brain (neurological) disorder associated with excessive neuronal activity and unprovoked seizures referred to as 'epileptic seizures' and sensory-motor deficits that cause neurobiological, cognitive, psychological, and social consequences to the patient. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. But you always have a cam card with the engine. This has been my long time understanding! Nothing makes mouths drop like a car that sounds and looks like it can't keep it self still! The ported heads were capable of supporting over 700 hp, so we knew they would not be restrictive on our stroker. If you look at any given cam catalog, you will find that the majority of street-oriented cams fall in this range. by MELWAY Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:18 pm, Post (ICL + ECL) / 2 = LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE (LSA) LSA is a RESULT of the PROPER events. by bug1914 Tue May 13, 2003 2:56 am, Post Increased overlap improves upper RPM power. As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. But remember, although a broader powerband has a couple of acceleration advantages, it also comes with a few drawbacks. You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. Whats The Reason Enthusiasts Cant Get, Quicksilvers Crate Engine Program: Past, Present, And The, PRI 2022: FuelTech Talks About The Tech Of The FT700, PRI 2022: Concept Performance Now Offers Aluminum LTR, PRI 2022: Wiseco And K1 Launch 7.3L Godzilla Rod/Piston, SEMA 2022: Hedman Shows First-Gen F-Body LT V8 Swap, SEMA 2022: Adult Legos Trick Tools Icengineworks Modeling, Full Factory Tour: How Edelbrock Makes Its Cast Aluminum, High-Performance Racing Fasteners: How ARP Fasteners Are, Ford vs Chevy Comparison Size, Weight, and HP Per, Video: How To Install COMP Cams LS Rocker Arm Trunion Upgrade, A New Diesel Piston That Increases Power And Reduces Emissions, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop Shop, Video: Watching A Mechanical Fuel Injector Spray In Slow Motion, Cool Your Engine With Proforms 1-2-3 Series Radiator Systems, A Guide To Ford V8 Engine Block Casting Numbers, 1952-1996, Chevrolet Performance Releases The Impressive L8T As A Crate Engine, A Guide To Mopar V8 Cylinder Head And Block Casting Numbers, Melling Offers New Timing Kits for Ford 4.6L and 5.4L SOHC Engines. Every spec is a road map to what the valves are doing, the most common of which are lift, duration, and lobe-separation angle (LSA)the latter needing the most explanation. Vintage/Classic/Historical Engine Tech, 3V Performance Engine & Valve train Development, Race Cars & Parts - For Sale or Wanted. Changing the lobe separation angle changes the amount of overlap that exists during the time the intake and exhaust valves are both open, echoes Doug Patton of Pro Line Race Engines. This may be of concern if you have vacuum assisted accessories, such as power brakes or steering. Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. I believe you have got the idea of what you were seeking. Thanks for the replies, particularly that link Marc, very informative. Lobe sepsration is an advanced description for overlap.If you take a cam on a 112,and grind it on a 108,you add more overlap,the time the valves are both open.Narrower lobe centers mean more low end and midrange torque,along with a peakier powerband,and a slightly rougher idle.Tradeoffs are sensitivity to octane ratings,total timing, and air fuel ratio.A lot to swallow I know,hope this helps you. 15,215. ohio. If all the specs remained the same what will going from a 110 to a 112 lsa do to driving characteristics? Lucky for us, Brian Tooley Racing stepped up with a dual spring package that allowed us to safely run our 0.624-lift cam. by mrsmythe Tue May 13, 2003 5:45 am, Post You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one. "When you've properly tuned a performance motor, you create high- and low-pressure waves in the intake and exhaust that help cylinder filling," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. Not a HUGE, but a significant difference between 110 and 112, but those are the trends. I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. A cams Lobe center angle equals intake centerline plus exhaust . Coupled that with the low first gear of the five speed, it ought to create some real traction problems. The introduction of Lunati'snew Bootleggerhydraulic series - with its wicked 108-degree lobe-separation angle, fast opening profile and plenty of area under the lift curve - will serve only to fuel the flames on this heated bench-racing topic. It's the scavenging effect of the high velocity exhaust gases rushing out that pulls the fresh fuel/air charge into the chamber. Mike Magda is a veteran automotive writer with credits in publications such as Racecar Engineering, Hot Rod, Engine Technology International, Motor Trend, Automobile, Automotive Testing Technology and Professional Motorsport World. Methods: We evaluated 30 individuals with PD (62.47.2 years) and 22 age-matched healthy controls (61.06.4 years). Now here is where it gets tricky. 110 LSA: On the contrary, 110LSA has a higher piston-to-valve clearance rate. such as 290 @.050? 108 vs 112 lobe seperation. 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. While a cam with a 108 lobe center will idle rougher. This cam split the difference between the 101 and 113 down the middle, and in theory should have walked the line between the results of the last two tests in every waywhich it did. Given that nitrous works best in the mid- to upper-rpm range, nitrous-powered engines need a wider lobe separation, like 112 . AquaTraction Vs SeaDek: Which One Is Better For you? = Moderately Tight 106-104 Deg. Say you have a cam ground on a 115 and the other on a 110. But, you may find it quite shocking that the piston-to-valve clearances decreasing rate raises the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. Is There a Sequence? Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? Has anybody experienced it/ tried it? I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. To demonstrate changes to lobe separation in action, we ordered three camshafts from Comp Cams, all ground with identical lift (0.541 intake and 0.537 exhaust) and duration (230 intake and 236 exhaust) but with three different LSAs: a 101, a 107, and a 113. Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. Knife edged & profiled 4MA Cleveland crank weighing 50lbs. A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. A cam card with its myriad numbers, acronyms, and abbreviations is one red-pen stroke away from a failed math test. 4 Impaired episodic memory and semantic knowledge are common in TLE, although dysexecutive traits . Generally, naturally aspirated engines run narrower lobe separation angles of around 106 to 108 whereas supercharged, turbo or nitrous engines operate with 112 to 114 and higher. Also If you go with 112 lobe centers, you create less valve overlap which will increase your compretion. The 112-degree cam offered nearly all the low-speed and mid-range torque of the 108 cam but the peak power suffered above 5,200 rpm. It is an important note you must keep; due to the lobe separation angle, there creates an overlapping of intake valve opening time and exhaust valve closing time and vice versa. Whatever you do, stay under 270 advertised duration and shoot for a 110 lobe separation. kinda off topic.. but while we're on the topic of cams, duration,lift,ect has anybody heard of using high compreshion (13:1) on pump gas, by useing alot of duration? http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220, http://www.popularhotrodding.com/en6em_camshaft_specs/lobe_seperation_angle.html. This was science at work, and with data in tow, it was time to crunch the numbers and find out what was going on. Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. That was all, and we have already reached the concluding point. Despite no changes in lift or duration, this cam sounded much more aggressive than the other two with wider LSAs. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . Ed JTO learn to park Joined May 31, 2009 180 Posts On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. Like choosing a cam in general, the key to eliminating separation anxiety is to find the proper balance of driveability and performance. The higher the compression and the higher you try and rev it, the more it will like a wider lobe center. The engine would idle a lot rougher and generate worse exhaust emissions largely because of unburned fuel.. Thanks for the replies so far. The center of those 2 events is the LOBE CENTERLINE (ECL). The reduced rate of the EGR effect lowers oxygen circulation in the engines combustion chamber. I know a little about cams. Do you like to go fast? Walter Noah is a process engineer who has a knack for resolving even the toughest technical issue. It a 355. thanks in advance. According to the Motortrend, LSA (Lobe Separation Angle) is a wonderful approximation of the operation of the engine because it takes into account the relative time of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) and the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) concerning each other.Above mentioned sequential activities allow LSA to be an accurate representation of the operation of the engine. 110 LSA: But here, quite surprisingly, you have to face the reduction of the EGR effect due to the 110 LSA. I do believe that stock VW seperation is 108 and 112 is used alot in turbo and midrange cams for VW's while 106 is used for the top end cams. Its also critical that valve overlap is kept to a minimum as the induction system can create a suction that pulls water into the motor, adds Bolander. by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post A Pro Stock engine builder may prefer a wide LSA to help keep the power from breaking traction tOo early. Unfortunately, good street manners are often at odds with performance, as wilder cam timing usually decreases idle and (low-speed) driveability. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. For your convenience, I am providing a comparison table to give you an overall idea about the comparison. For large port heads like the CNC 044's which can use the extra lift 1.4's make a noticable difference. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. It creates an unsteady manifold vacuum condition that, on a fuel-injected engine, confuses manifold air pressure (MAP) sensors, making it hard for them to regulate fueling. 4-Link72, do you run racing gas or pump with 10.5:1 CR? by Kdub Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 am, Post Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. 07 Though the CNC-ported heads offered plenty of flow, it was necessary to upgrade the supplied valvesprings. whats the difference in how the car will run. 110* LSA - lobe separation angle (lobe displacement angle) The +2* means your intake lobe centerline is advanced to obtain a 108* ICL - intake centerline and a 112* ECL - exhaust centerline. Frontal lobe epilepsy (FLE), the second most common focal epilepsy syndrome after temporal lobe epilepsy (TLE), is frequently drug-resistant and MRI-negative. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. 108 versus 110 will drive the power band down. So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. but less of it at the same time. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. 110 LSA: On the contrary, if you look at the powerband at 110 LSA, the powerband is comparatively broader. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. 112 will have a smoother idle, a wider power band, and will work better with fuel injection. so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. On a torque graph it tends to resemble a triangular shape.. Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. Most cars use more than, Read More Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? The graph above compares intake valve closing points of the three cams used in the test. True enough, the tight LSA improved power through the entire rev range, from 3,600 to 6,500 rpm, but the extra power came with a penalty in idle quality. I wouldn't assume 4 links fuel requirements will mirror yours at all. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. How To Properly Replace Ignition CoilsContinue. The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered.

Reagan Charleston House, List Of Doctrines In Contract Law, Articles OTHER